sussexbulldog
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Eagles v Wolves 16/05/2009Any comments ?
Just hope for no more injuries.
I am sure it will be close but with our injuries the Wolves may take a point or two.
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sussexbulldog
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Latest in ArgusThe Argus match preview is on the front page.
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ray
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so is davey riding or not ? if not who will guest be ? official site says he is , others say he is not 
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parker
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| ray wrote: | | so is davey riding or not ? if not who will guest be ? official site says he is , others say he is not |
Patience Ray ..at 1621hrs Watty was in the team thats as much as Ive been able to find out.
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MD
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| parker wrote: | | ray wrote: | | so is davey riding or not ? if not who will guest be ? official site says he is , others say he is not |
Patience Ray ..at 1621hrs Watty was in the team thats as much as Ive been able to find out. |
I think you will find that Dave is fit to race today..  (as of 10 mins ago!)
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ray
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these aussies are sumpthin' else . there are men then there aussies .   
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Kevin54
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2 bags of frozen peas to keep the swelling down   
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ray
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is that what errol flynn had to do ?! 
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speedy
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Sorry boys but you can put that one down as a lose by a completely incompetent management and promoter.
How they expect you to ride without a number one or two is beyond belief R/R for number 2 fine, but not to get a replacement in for a badly injured number 1 is just not on, it’s taking you for mugs and the paying public for fools.
Well done Lewis, Lukas and Ricky, and you Ricky four ride on the trot what were they thinking of.
Because the powers that be can’t be bothered to get a rider in at number one, they are putting you and the rest of the team under more threat of serious injury than is necessary.
And while I’m having a moan off why do we have to pay £1.00 for a stand seat, when on the last three occasions after heat 6 everybody comes in for free.
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speedy
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Sorry about that should read loss
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speedy dan boy
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understand how frustrated you are speedy,just got back and still dont know how we managed to loose!!But you have to go with what Davey Watt says as he rode so well when sky were there.If he says hes fit enough you cant argue with that after what hes been through.And what with lukas 3 wins on the spin and we still loose!!
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MrB
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In the cold light of day you could say that the choice to let Davey ride cost us the meeting BUT 13 points up after heat 8 we were cruising and I could not see a way back for Wolves the way we were riding, I still can't get my head round how we went from having such a superb team performance in the first half to loosing the send half of the meeting 15-30 what the hell happend?!
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speedy
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Simple to much pressure on a five man team, I understand that Lukas also hurt his wrist in his fall that’s why he did not ride in heat 15
Like I said all down to bad management, they must see that Davey is hurt and should insist he take a rest or the rest of our season is down the pan, and that not a dig at Davey, but you can be a hero once to often and do yourself more harm than good.
You’re not telling me that there wasn’t anybody out there to ride against Wolves, who would have got 6 to 8 points, and taken the pressure of the rest of the boys.
Sorry folks but its down to cheap skate management
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parker
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| speedy dan boy wrote: | | understand how frustrated you are speedy,just got back and still dont know how we managed to loose!!But you have to go with what Davey Watt says as he rode so well when sky were there.If he says hes fit enough you cant argue with that after what hes been through.And what with lukas 3 wins on the spin and we still loose!! |
I see where your coming from "sdb" but why didnt Davey do a fitness ride late friday and maybe we could have had a guest standing by. Certainly has to go down as a error in judgement, whether cheepskate management thats a matter of opinion but an assumption some will make.
For what ever reason we did throw away at least 2pts against a team thats been performing very well lately, now we have to go through the process of rebuilding confidence ready for the next batch of away meetings Disappointing considering some of the teams performances tonight 
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ray
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agree we threw it away , most of us shocked . will not critcise davey , but last season richardson rode when injured already , dropped out of meeting and rides had to be taken by reserves , at home to poole , and the season went into free-fall until the cup final . hope history [ can't be cup final now ] doesn't repeat itself . with meetings on thursday , friday and saturday there will be need for fit riders OR GUEST  .if simon was not injured we could take a chance , but not now . team manager to manage team please .camm's bikes not up to it , even got exclusion / handicap in vital heat 14 when clutch seemed to drag bike into tapes . from hero to zero , ok it happens , but we are still stunned . r/r for david worked well , and with PK and lindgren stating with one point between them we were lucky , but then lady luck changed sides . heat 10 the beginning of the collapse, for that is what it was . heat 15 looked like we had a 4-2 when lindgren fell being passed . re-run , sods law again , PK all the way .  when opponents have the likes of PK and lindgren in heat 13 we do look vulnerable , but we only have two heatleaders , until simon is back anyway .
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arnie
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On the subject of the loss, does anybody think that Lewis might have many the wrong decision in the rerun of heat 15, to have come out the gate thinking by cutting across to get the dirt on bends 1/2 that an experienced rider PK knew what he was going to do and immediately cut back and was gone!
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ComeOnYouSpurs
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You've stolen my thunder a bit there Ray...
I'll admit that I've never been a good loser, but when that loss was easily avoidable it gets me very cross!
It was 2008 v. Poole all over again, for Richardson read Watt.
A captain who, for whatever reason (bravery, money etc) refused to accept that he was unfit to ride, has lead to a vital defeat.
I was very critical of Lee last year so I must be equally critical of Davey this time round.
Some of you might call it loyalty, but to me it is the exact opposite, because his refusal to accept what was blatently obvious has cost the team big time. How can that be described as loyalty?
I know that these guys are extremely brave.... but they must accept that they are only human and there is only so much that their bodies can take.
We all complained last year about the weak management allowing Lee to ride, and there must be an element of that again here.
It was a Saturday night with no GP and no other Elite League matches so finding a suitable guest should have been a piece of cake.
With Floppy and Simon already out of the team we could not afford to take the risk, but for whatever reason, that's what we did and it has backfired on us spectacularly.
When it happened last year it was the catalyst to a period of mediocrity on the track and disenchantment on the terraces. For the sake of the clubs future I hope history doesn't repeat itself.
And while I'm having a rant.... what happened to Cameron?
If Monday nights heroics wasn't the boost he needed to get his season up and running then I don't know what would be!
But last night was probably his worst home performance of the season, he was losing to riders that he should beat around Arlington with his eyes shut, and in a match where 1 or 2 extra points would have made all the difference, that's not good enough.
Sorry if you think that's a bit harsh Cam, but one great ride don't make a season.
As you say Ray.... hero to zero in 6 days.
We now need an immediate and positive response from the team during the coming weeks fixtures to get the season back on track before it disappears down the plug hole.
And some realism and honesty from the injured riders and the management wouldn't go amiss either.
Here endeth the rant!!
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Aussie2
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| arnie wrote: | | On the subject of the loss, does anybody think that Lewis might have many the wrong decision in the rerun of heat 15, to have come out the gate thinking by cutting across to get the dirt on bends 1/2 that an experienced rider PK knew what he was going to do and immediately cut back and was gone! |
In hindsight Lewis will now have realised he made the wrong decision. It is down to experience, of which PK has much. Hopefully Lewis will learn, as we know he is doing. We cannot fault Lewis for the effort he put into the match, taking an extra in Floppy's place and also heat 15. Perhaps it is time for other people/medical/doctor to also decide whether a rider is fit. We saw Davey in the pits and asked how he was, the answer we got was "average". This immediately raised the red flag warning that perhaps he should not have ridden. We can all be wise after the event. We cannot blame Davey alone, I am afraid other riders did not pull their weight. Ricky Kling must have been extremely tired after all his rides. Let's hope that we have riders standing by for the matches on Thursday, Friday & Saturday, if needed.
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Kevin54
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Simple question...............why, when Davey knew what the injury was on the Friday against Lakeside, did he then trundle off to Poland and ride on the Sunday?
Sitting for a long time there and back can't exactly have helped his
injury, plus riding.
48 hours rest may have made a long term difference.
Just a simple observation.
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speedy dan boy
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having read the previos posts on here which are very fair about the facts of the match,i have to now agree with you all that Davey should of thought more about his fitness because the team were already carrying injuries and we cant carry anyone else.valid points on here ,why didnt he practice before hand,we had the pick of guests if wanted,and just one further thought if MD reads this was Adam Shields advailable as they both live in poole and could have travelled together for this match!!!!
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MD
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| speedy dan boy wrote: | | if MD reads this was Adam Shields advailable as they both live in poole and could have travelled together for this match!!!! |
To be honest SDB, Adam was asked to be on standby for last nights meeting but alas was unavailable to ride and is currently in Poland with Leszno. He was also on standby for last Mondays SKY meeting and of course was at Swindle ready to race for the rainoff. They asked Adam last Tuesday if he could standby for the Wolves fixture so my guess would be that the Eagles would have had another rider lined up in case Dave could not ride.
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speedy dan boy
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| MD wrote: | | speedy dan boy wrote: | | if MD reads this was Adam Shields advailable as they both live in poole and could have travelled together for this match!!!! |
To be honest SDB, Adam was asked to be on standby for last nights meeting but alas was unavailable to ride and is currently in Poland with Leszno. He was also on standby for last Mondays SKY meeting and of course was at Swindle ready to race for the rainoff. They asked Adam last Tuesday if he could standby for the Wolves fixture so my guess would be that the Eagles would have had another rider lined up in case Dave could not ride. |
MD THANKS VERY MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO POST REPLY
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ray
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thanks mark .as posted already with thursday , friday and saturday matches - lewis at poole wednesday too - a hectic spell for men and machines , and with the injuries being carried at lot is being asked of them . hear schlein is injured too and lewis had guested for him .would think the management have looked at the possibility of guests .
as for davey having test on track before match on saturday aussie2 and other locals said they heard the bikes on track earlier in the day and wondered why . the way lukas started they thought it might have been him . but it makes sense for any rider who is unsure of his match fitness to have a try out before the match with a guest on stand by . what is best for the team must take first priority . still concerns over our team management i am sorry to say . 
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parker
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| ray wrote: | thanks mark .as posted already with thursday , friday and saturday matches - lewis at poole wednesday too - a hectic spell for men and machines , and with the injuries being carried at lot is being asked of them . hear schlein is injured too and lewis had guested for him .would think the management have looked at the possibility of guests .
as for davey having test on track before match on saturday aussie2 and other locals said they heard the bikes on track earlier in the day and wondered why . the way lukas started they thought it might have been him . but it makes sense for any rider who is unsure of his match fitness to have a try out before the match with a guest on stand by . what is best for the team must take first priority . still concerns over our team management i am sorry to say . |
Saturday. Lukas did some pre match practice to stretch a new primery chain. I just wondered why Davey didnt do a fitness test Friday having said that hindsight is a wonderful thing. Personally although disappointed to lose and only with the use of the Tactical Ride I thought the 5 did quite well Lukas, Ricky and Lewis particularly. We've got as good a team as most and we will make the playoffs then who knows whats possible. We lost by 2pts lets be positive 2wins in the coming week and we are back on track. Just remember Unted got hammered by Liverpool 4-1 at home Fulham 2-1 away in consecutive games and still won the championship.
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ray
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i think the word we are looking for paul is " professional " if a team is managed with the relevant procedures and preparation before , during and after racing such " bad luck " can usually be avoided. well we can hope and dream can't we ?! two , perhaps three teams do this , they are " professional " .
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ComeOnYouSpurs
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I admire your stiff upper lip parker...
A defeat is just about bearable PROVIDED it is not self inflicted and you are beaten by the better team. Sadly last nights loss was largely brought on by ourselves and could (and should) have been avoided.
But I agree with you about the forthcoming week....
As I said in my previous "rant"... if we get a positive response to last nights result, then all can be forgiven and the season could be back on track.
But if we go into these 3 meetings still carrying unfit riders... and if Cameron has his "Wolves head" on rather than his "Swindon head"... can you honestly see us getting 2 wins?
As Ray has said, a bit of professionalism, and as I previously said, honesty and realism, are whats required.
And one other thing... Can someone enlighten me on the Denis Gizatullin situation.
Looking at the form he is currently showing, surely this would have been an ideal time to bring him in at reserve to see how he got on.
We'd then be in an ideal position to make the right decision for the good of the team when Simon regains fitness.
Or is Denis destined to be the biggest waste of time and effort in Eagles history?
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ray
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like before you you mean cous
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samthepalaceman
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I reckon Denis will be brought in for Norris once Simon moves into the main body of the team. Don't think Norris will be fully fit again as much as I would like.
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Aussie2
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Rory Schlein is no longer injured Ray he won the big meeting at Newcastle today. Glad to see that Lewis has qualified for the next round of the Under 21. He deserved it after such a heroic performance yesterday.
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parker
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I take both Rays and Cous points all I'm say is that despite Daveys insistance that he was fit which later proved otherwise, Several others of the team stepped up to the mark and that we should take the positives out of that, with a little bit of luck we could have pinched a point at the end but for the re run in heat 15. True we now need a professional approach to the next 3 meetings and if needed guest riders for Davey should be the order of the day. At the beginning of the season would anyone have predicted we would be in a playoff spot and Poole bottom of the league.
I take it that the club would incur addition costs to secure a guest and on the attendance levels that must have bearing on managements thought process. 
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ComeOnYouSpurs
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parker: I'm sure you'll agree that the best way to encourage decent crowd figures is to put out a winning team.
So.... if you are suggesting that an unfit Davey was "persuaded" to ride on Saturday night just to save a few quid surely that is a false economy.
As myself and Ray have said.... look what happened after the Lee Richardson "inspired" Poole defeat last year.... the league season fell away and crowd numbers dwindled.
You'd have hoped we'd have learnt our lesson.
And with regard to "other riders stepping up...." it was only Lewis, Lukas and to some degree Ricky who performed up to expectations. You're not going to win many meetings with only 3 riders making decent contributions.
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Kevin54
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We've had our first home defeat of the season, galling though that may be, to a team that is top of the league.
They destroyed Poole at Poole.
If we had had our full squad they would have not got one point off us, let alone the four they did.
The mistake that was made was to accept Davey was fit to ride, and if the situation regarding the potential replacement for him was so, then it sounds as if the club could not do much about it.
As to the wider picture; as Parker rightly says, we are in a strong position, Poole, the self appointed "Manchester United" of Elite League Speedway are at the bottom of the heap, and what is more, riders seemingly do not appear to be queuing up to join them
There is a long way to go, this season will provide a few more twists and turns yet.
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sussexbulldog
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See the report on our front page.
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speedy dan boy
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A fter reading the latest story i keep changing my mind on the events of Davey Watt!! I do feel Bob was put in an impossible situation and he did all he could so fair play to Bob Dugard there is no way i can blame him and infact i feel sorry for him on this situation!.Ive really enjoyed the season so far and the club seem to be trying to attract new fans so fair play again to the Dugard family.(blimey i must be going soft,bigging Bob up and also offering a shoulder to cry on although somehow i dont think he will take up the latter!!!!)
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ray
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with you spd , suggest in future if there is any doubt the rider involved has a test ride to check his fitness for everyone's sake , including the rider . as posted already we experienced this problem with richardson against poole last season . time to get professional , how many times have we posted that ,in this case there would have been no problem , davey and adam are neighbours not far from poole . they could have travelled up together . management took davey's word , fair enough , but look what happened . so no scapegoat now , let there not be a third occurence especially with matches on thursday , friday and saturday . lewis is also riding on wednesday .management to manage and take necessary action when there is a doubt , and make decision following this . this is a professional sport , and all involved should behave this way .
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sussexbulldog
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It very much sounds like you have been taking the right tablets Ray
Totally agreed. I have gone out of my way to support Davey in the past but he did make an error of judgement on Saturday and it cost the Eagles 3 points despite the efforts of the other members of the team to cover.
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ray
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just have to try and remember if i have to chew them before swallowing let us hope the lesson has been learnt , we have paid the price
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parker
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| ComeOnYouSpurs wrote: | | parker: I'm sure you'll agree that the best way to encourage decent crowd figures is to put out a winning team. |
Weve been winning for several weeks and the gates are still not hitting the break even target
So.... if you are suggesting that an unfit Davey was "persuaded" to ride on Saturday night just to save a few quid surely that is a false economy.
| Quote: | I'm not saying he was persuaded to ride but the thought that when he said he was fit management might think it would save on a guest passed my mind.
As myself and Ray have said.... look what happened after the Lee Richardson "inspired" Poole defeat last year.... the league season fell away and crowd numbers dwindled.
You'd have hoped we'd have learnt our lesson.
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I agree entirely but I still dont believe we should panic after only 8 meetings gone BD's statement seems to cover our issues over taking a riders word that hes fit
And with regard to "other riders stepping up...." it was only Lewis, Lukas and to some degree Ricky who performed up to expectations. You're not going to win many meetings with only 3 riders making decent contributions.
| Quote: | | "some degree Ricky" |
he picked up 10pts paid 12pts, Chris Schramm No8 picked up 3 pts probably 2 more that Brundle would have done last season.
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ray
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so is there a procedure to deciding about the fitness of a rider . who decides ? surely as in other professional sports a fitness test should be taken by the relevant rider . is there one ? think we all would appreciate knowing this . or are we still amateurs parker , as usual is right , after what happened last season many of us were disillusioned and ceased attending for a while , and the same could happen again . waiting to see how things develop before i, along with a guest , attend this saturday
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ComeOnYouSpurs
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To paraphrase Trevor from the Argus report:
"Davey felt he was ok till he sat on the bike and felt the vibrations that numbed his fingers"....
I hate to state the bleedin' obvious but wouldn't you have thought that sitting on the bike was the very least that should have been done before Davey was declared fit?
This is where the lack of professionalism really shines through and mustn't be repeated.
A harsh lesson but hopefully one that will be learnt from.
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ray
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sounds like the blind leading the blind . how foolishly amateur . presume the lesson is learnt this time , coz one would think it would have been learnt after happening before , which it has
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